tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post2243537733259171019..comments2024-03-27T15:06:43.682-07:00Comments on Handi-CAPEable . NEW!: New Ultimates #2: Captain America Can't Handle Your InternetsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17773416732192167277noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post-58124536088248098252010-05-13T06:08:10.738-07:002010-05-13T06:08:10.738-07:00See, and I'd argue that Millar's loads bet...See, and I'd argue that Millar's loads better with the pop culture stuff than Loeb, not least because he uses them as toss-off references rather than major points of characterization. But I agree with Jared that Millar's also better at constructing contexts in which even a dated reference would still make sense. You don't need to know Freddie Prinze, Jr. specifically to grasp that Betty's dating a minor celebrity, and you don't need to know who Ronald Colman is to understand that Aunt May thinks Tony Stark looks like a movie star/pop idol type.<br /> <br />(Yeah, Aunt May compared Tony Stark to 30s matinee idol Ronald Colman, not B-Movie director Roger Corman. Trust me, if you've ever seen pictures of Corman, you wouldn't mistake him for Tony Stark.)Omar Karindunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post-30140171097643153162010-05-12T21:12:40.666-07:002010-05-12T21:12:40.666-07:00To my mind, pop culture references work when they ...To my mind, pop culture references work when they work to develop characterization, but when they're mainly used for one-off jokes they can become very dated very fast. <br /><br />I remember one episode of "Married With Children" where the Bundys try to get a black city official angry at the D'Arcys by saying that the only black person the D'Arcys respect is Ted Danson. I was left scratching my head over that one, and it was only after looking Danson up on Wikipedia that I actually understood it. As wicked as something like that would have been back in 1993, it simply falls flat today. <br /><br />That said, they can also be effective, as Nitz points out-his use of the Street Fighter video games in "Ruby's World" is a humorous bit of characterization for Jens, who's both a macho man and something of a dork-when he can win the game using the joke character on the hardest level, you know he's a hardcore gamer. <br /><br />I think the secret to good pop culture references has a lot to do with whether the audience needs to know them in order to understand the joke, the plot or whatever.<br /><br />References to O.J. Simpson and Dan Quayle fall flat to modern audiences who watch or read 1990s media, but an audience who doesn't necessarily know anything about "Street Fighter" isn't necessarily losing anything when they read "Ruby's World". Those that are "in the know" get an additional bonus, but if you don't see it, you can enjoy the plot just fine. <br /><br />Back when it was the best show in television history instead of arguably the worst show on the air today, "The Simpsons" worked this to perfection. Matt Groening pointed it out when he explained how there were a lot of more subtle jokes that savvy viewers could get, while those who didn't pick up on them could still laugh at gags like this:<br /><br />Homer: "Asleep at the switch! I wasn't asleep, I was drunk!"<br />Bart: "I believe you, Dad."Jaredhttp://www.fanfiction.net/u/1728560/JaredMilne1982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post-57357509802202644932010-05-10T19:02:51.972-07:002010-05-10T19:02:51.972-07:00Jay ( Boaz ),
Fair point, but Mark Millar makes a...Jay ( Boaz ),<br /><br />Fair point, but Mark Millar makes a lot of references to pop culture past as well as present ( Aunt May commenting that Tony Stark is hot because he looks like Roger Corman, WW2 Cap complaining that he looks like the Lone Ranger, Hawkeye doing black ops work during the sectarian wars in Kosovo, etc. ), and he also frames his entire stories with current events, instead of just off-hand references. They're already starting to get dated ( for example, Ultimate Fury saying that his nose has been smashed more than Robert Downey Jr. ), but his older works still hold up pretty well on their story merits. I don't think that anything is timeless, and unless it's something like period-specific bigotry, moldy references are acceptable. <br /><br />By the way, I apologize for getting behind on your Abandoned Legion stories, and will get caught up shortly.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17773416732192167277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post-46709941790370843442010-05-10T16:13:40.017-07:002010-05-10T16:13:40.017-07:00This is from the same writer who had Janet Van Dyn...This is from the same writer who had Janet Van Dyne talk about how Cap's "1940s brain" couldn't process two siblings being lovers. Now I could understand it if she was talking about a gay couple- as far as I know, the issue's never been touched on, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ultimate Cap wasn't all too tolerant of homosexuality- but is incest really something that's become acceptable over the past 60 years? Because if that's the case, I must be stuck in the 40s too.A Dog Jayhttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5169626575812155292.post-74370401409000471012010-05-09T20:56:19.096-07:002010-05-09T20:56:19.096-07:00If I may, I find it a little ironic that you hold ...If I may, I find it a little ironic that you hold up Millar as an example of stronger writing on the Ultimates title (which I'm not disagreeing with, by the way) when your third point touches on using the most recent pop culture references. Millar is extremely guilty of doing such a thing in his Ultimates runs (or at least in the virst volume, as that's the only one I've read).<br /><br />Pop culture references really tend to date a story and actually take me OUT of the story, so I agree that I don't like it when writers do it. I still get a chuckle out of an issue of Spider-Man during Maximum Carnage where a guy is stealing a computer and he details the specs; I think it had a 32 mb harddrive...my shoe has a bigger harddrive than that these days! :)Jay Boazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14499002361030996927noreply@blogger.com